[Idallas]: All aboard the SS fandom.

Hello, CSUB fandom friends.

It’s your host, Idallas.

Welcome back on board, fandom friends.

Books can offer so much to a reader.

From harrowing stories within mysterious contexts, or even bright and daring stories of heroism, a book can offer hours and years of content to enjoy.

For today’s episode, we will be diving headfirst into one book genre in particular, the wonderful romance, the romance, the romance genre.

Good Lord.

Love that up already.

That, if that doesn’t tell you how today’s episode is going to go, just know that it’s been a day.

Anyway, before I get into everything, I do want to give a content warning for the viewers, well, audience at home.

Just know that some instances of what we will be talking about, we’ll be going into, uh, sexual topics specifically within the, within the genre of romanticy, there are, uh, what is called smut, we’ll get into that a little bit later.

Just a content warning for y’all.

If y’all don’t feel comfortable with it, just find yourself another episode.

And with that being said, I am here with…

Anne-Marie.

I’m happy to be here.

I’m glad you’re here, Anne-Marie.

Thank you.

Now let’s, let’s just jump right into it.

Reading for fun.

A lot of people don’t understand that, but what do you think separates book reading from any other form of content for you?

Well, um, I have always grown up reading.

My mom was a reader.

Um, she read to me every single day, every single night.

Um, and that very much formed me into the person I am today.

Um, a lot of kids, um, don’t really grow up with that experience.

Um, a lot of them are raised as like reading is something you do purely for academic purposes, like in English class.

Um, and so because it’s kind of like you have to do it, they don’t necessarily see it as a fun activity.

Right.

For me, I grew up specifically in, in a family that is, of course, academically inclined.

We’re always pushed, like a lot of my family members, we have all gone to college at this point.

It’s just something that we have done since the generation before us.

That’s what we’ve been instilled in.

But my Thea Janie actually, um, uh, Janie Flores, uh, she is really prominent here in CSUB.

She actually just got awarded for, I forget what, sorry, Thea.

But, um, she actually instilled in me specifically the love of reading.

I still carry one of the first books she gave me, which is The Giving Tree.

Oh.

And so from there, I just developed a massive love for reading.

So I can totally relate on having reading as that guide for me and as a passionate type of thing.

Yeah.

The Giving Tree was also very much a book that was very prevalent throughout my childhood.

Hey, we were like, yeah!

Yay!

How often do you read?

At least nowadays.

Uh, nowadays, um.

We’re college students, so I can understand a bit a lot less.

Trust me.

I’ve been there, done that.

Um, I, I’m a history major, so my schedule is pretty jam-packed with nonfiction reading, but.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

But I read for fun every single day.

That’s your childhood period.

Me with fanfiction, but that’s the next point.

Fanfiction is totally, I love fanfiction.

I love fanfiction, it’s great. 10 out of 10.

Like, there’s so many stories to like, to give yourself into.

Like, I was reading one too, like, right before I went to bed yesterday.

So, love.

Yeah.

If I am not reading a book at night, I’m on my Kindle scrolling AO3.

As you should be, too.

Literally me on AO3 all the time.

When AO3 goes down, it’s like the world shatters for me.

Oh my gosh.

They cannot shut that website down.

No, they can’t.

Like, I swear, they would have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

Mine too.

Okay, what appeals to you the most about reading?

Um, well, there’s this thing going around that goes around on social media every so often, in a world where nobody wants to be in our world.

I give you fantasy books.

Yes.

Oh my God.

I love fantasy.

Um, speaking of it, romanticy.

So, romance, the romanticy genre is broken up into, it’s comprised of a combination of romance and fantasy.

In your opinion, what is this genre?

Um, in this genre, I see it as like a subcategory of fantasy.

Right.

Um, fantasy overall is my favorite genre, but romanticy is my favorite, like, little niche of fantasy.

It’s personally mine.

I love, I love fantasy as a genre, period.

But if you add romance, I’m there.

I’m hooked.

I’m immediately set.

Like, um, I was actually talking to my boyfriend about this yesterday.

But I, he, he’s a really big fan of isekai genre in anime.

And I’m a fan of anything that has to do with fantasy or romance.

Um, specifically mine, which is a villainous.

So it usually is like an otome game, which is like a romance game itself.

But the, the main female character gets reincarnated into the body of the villainous.

Oh, wow.

And from there it can kind of go anywhere.

So that’s, that’s my favorite.

That sounds so cool.

It’s awesome.

Like there’s this one, it’s, I want to say, forgive me, audience.

I don’t know if you’ve watched this one.

I love it.

It’s one of my favorites.

It’s, uh, can I ask for this one last thing?

And it’s about this main female lead.

And like the, like the main trope in it is basically where the, it’s either the villainous character or the character just gets put to the side by the person she’s supposed to marry.

But in this specific one, she’s just like, all right, awesome, cool, whatever.

She, she was raised to be the queen, but now she’s like, all right, all bets off.

Can I ask for this one last thing?

And she starts decking everybody.

It’s great.

She uses her fists and it’s great.

She has a, she has a power of, of, um, time warping.

So she’s able to do it a lot faster, but she’s just decking people left and right in the show and I love it.

Oh my gosh.

That sounds like I would love it too.

It’s so good.

I definitely will have to show it to you later.

So please do.

Yes.

We, we must watch an episode together.

But back to the topic at hand.

Romanticy.

I love the genre too.

So I can definitely agree.

So in your opinion, what makes the most compelling pieces of this genre?

Um, the most compelling pieces of this genre for me, um, I think the main one for me is a very strong central female protagonist because for a very long time, fantasy as a whole was very male centered.

Yes.

It’s so like, as much as I love me good fantasy books, like, obviously we have the OGs, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, which have very, very well, well written out up until the last freaking book, JK Rowling, I Will Fight You.

Uh, I’m still so mad about Harry Potter, but that’s besides the point.

When we have male centered, male centered books within the fantasy genre, it, I feel like it hinders a lot of women in there because we are kind of put into the spotlight of, no, this is not your genre.

Yeah.

So I totally get it.

Yeah.

And I find strong central female characters and side characters more compelling because my mom did a lot of work when we were younger to make sure that a lot of what we were reading was female focused.

Oh, I love that.

That’s wonderful.

I love it too, because she went, go mom, my mom is amazing.

She wanted us to see that, you know, women are very strong no matter what.

As they are.

Yes.

Um, there’s nothing wrong with a woman taking up space.

And that’s on period.

And that we can lead and fight and do anything just as well or even better than the men.

And that’s on period because dang straight we do.

Okay.

What’s your current favorite book within the genre?

Current favorite book within the genre?

Why do you have to ask me such a hard question?

I don’t know.

Trust me.

I don’t know if you’ve seen it yet, but I’m such an indecisive person.

So when anybody asks me to give them a list of anything, I’m like, girl, I have like 17 different things.

I don’t know what you want me to limit it down to, but if you’re trying to ask me the number one, good luck.

You ain’t getting an answer out of me.

I am like the very same way.

Um.

What’s got your hyperfixation then, I guess?

Like what’s currently on your mind?

Currently on my mind in terms of…

Like you’re obsessed with in terms of this genre.

I am reading the Throne of Glass series by Sarah J Maas right now.

Okay.

I’ve heard a lot about it.

It’s really good.

It has me in a chokehold.

And that’s not period.

I am on…

So there are eight books in the series total.

And hold on.

I have to count.

Let’s see.

I am on books six and seven right now.

Oh my God.

She’s on the side.

That’s always my, that was, that was literally me with the first reaction, I don’t want it to end.

I know.

And I’m doing the tandem read of those two books because those two, those two books take place at the exact same time.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So you’re doing…

Yeah, but they take place in different areas of the world that the books are set in.

So a lot of readers, it’s not a requirement to read them at the same time, but I’m just thinking for like time’s sake and for the sake of like helping keep the plot straight in my head, it seems like a good idea to read them both.

Yeah, that’s actually really good.

I never thought of that.

That’s really cool, actually.

That’s new.

So now, now that we’re actually getting into it, like diving into the books itself, how do you feel people respond differently to ambition, anger, or sexuality in female characters compared to males?

Well, a very real world example I can think of is when women, you know, express any emotion that men don’t think is undesirable, like anger, sadness.

It’s very much we’re being too emotional.

Yep.

Yeah.

Excuse me.

Have you seen men at football games?

Literally!

Have you, have you literally seen them at home going crazy?

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen those just compilations of men throwing things at their TV, breaking property over what?

A game?

Come on now.

Like, I’m a lot of things, but I ain’t about to throw them.

I’ve wanted to, but that’s the difference.

To want and doing it are two different things.

I, I wanted to do it, but then I’m like, self-control, self-control, self-control.

And I think that’s the difference.

The, the big difference is that men have, men are allowed to be angry.

They’re allowed to be, all of these big type of emotions and women are told that we’re not, we’re not supposed to, that we’re supposed to be this type of way.

We’re supposed to be fit into this perfect little box.

And that’s what, what I, what draws me the most into romanticy is that we have such strong female leads who really are like, uh, I don’t know who you think you are, but you got the wrong one, honey.

I know.

And like, when it comes to like women being ambitious and wanting to have power and be strong, I really liked the way that Taylor Swift explained it.

She explained it in one interview as saying, um, you know, when a man does that, um, it’s very socially acceptable.

It’s seen as ambitious and all of these good adjectives are pushed onto that.

But when a woman does it, she’s very calculated, sneaky, um, words with very negative connotations.

And I’m like, literally why?

It, it makes no sense to me because there’s no reason that I shouldn’t want the same level of like power and ambition and status.

I should be respected just the same as a man is.

And I completely agree with that.

And that’s, that is literally a double standard.

Like, it’s funny that you, for you, it’s, um, a matter of from Taylor Swift.

For me, it’s from one of my favorite female lead singers from a band called In This Moment, Marina Brink, uh, Sex Metal Barbie is one of my favorite songs by her.

And in the song, she’s basically talking about the Sex Metal Barbie and Whore actually are some of my favorite songs by her.

Whore specifically in this case, I was like, confused a little bit there, but Whore is talking about, you want me to be the sexual being.

You want me to look a specific type of way.

You hate me.

You hate me.

And it’s an air quotations there.

You hate me for it, but that’s really what you love me for.

And that’s the thing is that outwardly men want, like, want women to look a type of way, to act a type of way, and when they’re expressing themselves in a specific type of way, like within a more scantily dressed type of way, they’re mad.

And it’s just like, okay, but you, it’s not a problem for you if you’re watching it on less than appropriate sites, huh?

Exactly.

And I kind of have never liked the idea that our whole appearance has basically been subtly pushed on us particularly, is that we have to cater to what men like.

Right.

And it’s almost like, I like, like, I have clothes and everything that I like wearing, but then when I go out, I’m just like, you know what?

Like, I know my boyfriend likes what I wear.

And you know what?

I think that the fact that I like it kind of makes it more beautiful, but I kind of wish- And it should be that way.

Yes, it should be that way.

Yeah.

And like, for me specifically, when I’m going out and things like that, compared to like days on work, I will do my makeup.

I will do these things.

And it’s funny, it’s funny that you bring up, like, your boyfriend in this conversation, because me and my boyfriend have been together for going on six years this April, woo.

But in the beginning, he preferred me essentially without makeup, and that wasn’t going to stop me ever.

It wasn’t like he was trying to tell me- As it shouldn’t.

Right, literally, it shouldn’t.

Like, the right guy will look at you, and like, even if it’s like, not necessarily what he would like or prefer, or it’s not his style, he’s going to love you regardless.

Yes, and that’s how it should be.

Ladies, or men in this case, too.

If you like something and your partner is not with it, they should love you for it anyway.

But if they don’t, run for the hills, baby.

Go find another one because you deserve better.

But yeah, nowadays, it’s funny because whenever I get dressed up and I do my makeup specifically, too, because I always match my outfits and everything, my boyfriend’s- And you always look fantastic.

Thank you.

You’re welcome.

I was just like, I was telling her, for the audience at home, I was telling her behind the scenes, essentially, that I had like a few mishaps with my makeup today.

It was fighting me for the life of me.

But yeah, it’s like these types of things where it’s just like this idea that we should be a certain type of way for a man that I shouldn’t wear my eyeliner or do my eyeshadow as crazy as I do it for a man.

Like, I don’t care what a man thinks.

I’m going to do it for myself and I’m going to look good while doing it.

Because it’s your confidence that makes you sparkle.

Right?

See?

And that’s what we love the most about this genre.

Because we have some batty females and they do not care.

And that’s how it should be.

They do not care.

I love it.

Oh, my gosh.

Luckily, my boyfriend has never been anything but respectful.

He’s amazing.

And that’s on period.

And that’s and that’s how it should be, babes.

Do you feel male authors give more respect and recognition in this genre than female authors?

Oh, yes, definitely.

Yes.

And it drives me crazy.

Right?

Yes.

Because in my…

This is not to say, this is not to dissuade people from looking at any male, male-written fiction or romanticity.

Yeah.

If you want to read, if you want to read George R.R.

Martin, by all means, read George R.R.

Martin.

Yes.

Who am I to tell you what you should and shouldn’t read?

Literally.

And then that’s that’s our point is that we’re not trying to say, no, all male writing is bad.

No, it’s not.

They get more recognition, which is unfair, unjust, in my opinion, because there are so many more female writers out there that have such amazing, beautiful work.

Yes.

Like, for example, going back to George R.R.

Martin, I’m someone who has watched Game of Thrones all the way through.

Season eight was awful.

See, I start, it’s funny because my ex-boyfriend, poor boy, I will not get into him today, but my ex-boyfriend introduced the Game of Thrones series to me and it’s such a dark series, but it’s so good.

And I’m like, I don’t want to continue watching it because it’s so dark, but I love it.

I’m like, it’s so good though.

But yeah, a lot of people with Game of Thrones very much focus on, like, who their favorite character is, what house they would be in.

They very, they very much focus on the politics behind that particular series.

Right.

But if we were to take a look at the Empyrean series by Rebecca Yaros, the first book being Fourth Wing, which I absolutely love.

I’m reading the second one right now.

Like, his books, they focus very much on the characters and the plot and the politics.

And her books are very much just reduced to smut when really that’s not all that it is.

And if that’s like the only thing you’re focusing on, then, like, that’s a you problem.

Because if Game of Thrones was written by a woman, it would very be, it would be labeled as smut.

For the audience at home, smut is basically sexual encounters written out.

Yeah.

That’s what the smut, what smut is.

And it’s crazy because you look at how much filth is in, I say filth, but I say it in the best way, I promise.

Filth is in, like, series like the Game of Thrones.

But then you look at series that are not heavily, because a lot of people don’t understand this, but most of the time within the writing, especially for females and what females read, the smut is just one part of it.

Yeah.

It’s not the whole thing.

I know.

And very much for women, I was discussing this with my mom a while back.

When it comes to things like smut and the things that men like to watch, men are very visual creatures.

And the reason why women find smut so appealing is because it’s tied into a plot.

We need a story in order to…

Yeah, we just can’t just have pure smut scenes.

No, we have to have a story.

And there has to be a reason.

There has to be buildup.

There has to be buildup.

There has to be plot.

There has to be a story.

It can’t just be there.

Yeah.

Like, you, you’re, you’re going through this series and you’re, you’re following this female lead and their partner and how that develops.

And as, and as it, and as they emotionally develop, then it makes more sense for there to be smut.

It makes sense for these things to happen.

Yeah.

Like a relationship.

Yeah.

It’s not just there.

Literally.

And it’s just like, why are we reduced to it?

And, and that’s my problem with, again, this is not to say anything horrid about men, but men coming into the romanticism world to pay attention to, like, and I say that with air quotes, pay attention because a lot of the discourse right now is that they’re not paying attention.

They’re not really reading what’s in front of them.

Yeah.

Like, there are some men I’ve seen on Bookstagram because that’s mostly where I’m at.

Um, I haven’t started TikTok yet, but I want to break into BookTok.

Um, but there are men who are reading it because they are curious and they’re reading it because they want to, like, there are men who want to treat women better and they’re reading it because of that.

But then there are men who are just reading it like, oh, I’m going to see what’s in here.

Oh my God, that’s in here.

That’s, like, women.

Yeah.

I’m like…

Literally.

And it’s just like, but you don’t have a problem when Game of Thrones does it.

No.

You don’t have a problem seeing all of the smut scenes in the Game of Thrones series.

And Game of Thrones has, when it comes to, like, quote unquote smut, I wouldn’t classify what’s in Game of Thrones as a lot of smut.

There’s a lot of, there’s a lot of sexual assault.

There’s raping.

There’s a lot of rape.

Um, there’s incest.

That’s a big one.

Yeah.

Like, it’s talked about a lot.

That’s a very big plot point.

Um, like, I’m not saying that there isn’t smut in Game of Thrones.

I’m just saying, like…

It’s, it’s done differently.

It is.

Very much.

It’s not engaging in the way that romanticy has it because romanticy has it as it is consensual, as it is these things.

And that’s another thing that appeals to women.

It is consensual.

Yes.

And especially in, like, today’s day and age, it shows us that we have agency and autonomy over our bodies and what situations we choose to put ourselves in.

Exactly.

And we, it’s very much showing us that we have the power to say no.

Yes.

And guess what?

The fictional men do not get upset when the female main character says no.

Exactly!

And on that point, why women like fictional men?

You had a perfectly way for me.

So what do you think is the biggest draw for, like, fictional men in this case?

Oh boy, fictional men, they have more, I would say, more emotional intelligence than the standard non-fictional man.

Yes.

That does, that category does not include my boyfriend.

He’s as pretty close to fictional as they get.

My boyfriend’s learned so much.

And it’s funny because, like, like, as we’re both in relationships, for me, it’s very funny because I’m like, he’s learned a lot.

He now has a much, it’s funny because we, I feel like we’ve picked up on a lot of things, like, where I, where he has had a lot of, what’s the word I want to use?

Specific, he was not as emotional as, like, I am.

He’s very much blunt, these types of things, and, like, has an analytical point of view.

I’ve picked up on a lot more analytical, trying to be away from my emotions to be like, all right, let’s get to the problem solving part of this.

And I’ve picked up a little bit more on that.

And he’s picked up a lot more on my emotions, which is a good thing because he understands me.

Yay!

And my boyfriend and I are both very analytically minded.

But I would say in terms of, like, fictional men, they listen to us.

Exactly.

They respect us.

They do not push boundaries.

And if there is a man in a book that does, that doesn’t do any of those things, he is dealt with quickly.

He is very quickly shown the door.

Like, they’re dealt with quickly!

Like, the female main character is like, I know my worth.

I know my standards.

I know my boundaries.

The door is right there.

Literally like, this ain’t for me.

Maybe for you.

For somebody else.

Not for me.

Not for me, babe.

Not for me, love.

Literally not for me.

For you, maybe.

Not for me.

And that’s what I, that, and, and it’s funny because, like, we get into characters, like, for me, one of my biggest draws in, like, a romance-y type of genre, but it’s not books.

The, um, Love in Deep Space.

Silas.

I am such a big, I love Silas and that man.

You have sent me so many things about Silas.

But on that point, he’s not just hot.

He’s also emotionally in tune with our female lead.

And you see from his backstory and things like that, because there is some things in the game that it’s just like, all right, it doesn’t make sense.

Wrap this storyline up.

It don’t, it don’t make sense.

Um, but you can understand it.

Like, when you actually, like, because there was a scene in one of the first iterations that he was in where he’s getting upset with the character because she’s not responding to him, um, in a way that he’s just, like, like, I’ve been here waiting for you, essentially.

But then you come to find out that this man has essentially traveled through time now.

Yeah.

And has been waiting for her.

So you can understand why he’s more upset because he’s just like, I remember you, but you don’t remember me.

Yeah.

Like, the traveling through time and, like, oh, he was meant to find her, that kind of reminds me of the A Court of Thorns and Roses series with Feyre and Rhys.

There’s this one part in the first book where Feyre is going to a party that she’s not technically supposed to be at because she’s human, not fey.

Right.

And a lot of the fey really want to take advantage of human people.

So there are these two or three fey who come up to her because they think she’s pretty.

And very quickly she’s trying to get out of the situation.

But there’s not really, like, it’s proving difficult for her, which I think is very reflective of how a lot of women feel in situations.

Women write a lot of these things that they’ve gone through personally themselves, unfortunately.

And then Rhysand shows up and he says, there you are, I’ve been looking for you.

And he very quickly gets her out of that and he gets her out of that situation and to safety.

And we need more men like that.

Yes.

And in the second book we find out that…

Because usually it’s a woman who does it in real life.

Yes.

Who comes to aid.

And that’s another point that gets brought up when women are writing and at the helm of these novels and things like that.

A lot of things women will typically do now, that’s why the fictional men appeal to them because they’re the ones who are doing it.

Yeah.

And going back to the line where he said, there you are, I’ve been looking for you, and how it ties into Silas.

You find out that he is very much meant for her.

Like fate has brought them together.

And he’s like, there is so much depth to those simple few words.

Like on the surface, it’s like, oh, he’s getting her out of that situation.

But it’s more than that.

Yeah, once the story unfolds, you get to see like this, like where they’ve come from and where they are now.

And it’s such an interesting thing to see with like fictional male characters.

And I think that’s why.

So that’s why people love them so much.

Yes.

How do you think fictional men embody emotional intelligence, communication, or devotion in ways that real men are not socialized to?

Real men, I think, have very much been fed a narrative by society and patriarchy that, and it’s been this way for centuries, a very long time.

Women are there as a type of commodity, very much in essence, just there for them to use for reproductive purposes.

But fictional men don’t really see the female main characters that way.

They are like, these women are powerful.

I am in love with her, but I understand like…

She’s her own person.

I don’t control her.

She is her own person.

I don’t control her.

I must respect her.

Because if I don’t, she will leave.

Yeah, literally.

And on that point too, for me specifically, like specifically within like smut and things like that, the idea of consensual things that bring up like BDSM and things like that, and topics on that point.

I feel like within fictional men, all of these things are understood to be like, okay, this is a part of this.

This will never bleed over into anything else.

Like when, like the, like the idea of, because I love the idea of fictional obsession.

Yeah.

Mutual fictional obsession.

Like the pining, the yearning.

And to me, I very much want, and like with fictional men, he pines, he yearns, but he also understands he needs to build up before he even gets to a point where, you know, the smutty situations take place.

So it’s very much a Gomez Adams situation where it’s like, like woo her, admire her, treat her like she’s the most sublime creature on this earth.

Like fictional men embody that.

Yes.

And that’s what attracts us the most to them.

Yes.

I completely agree.

Now, on that point, is the appeal about the man himself or how intensely he loves the female lead?

Um, I think for me, it’s the deep emotional connection.

Like, like, don’t get me wrong.

Like fictional men are attractive.

Yes, they are.

They are.

But like, at the end of the day, that’s not everything.

I very much, I very much like that there is an emotional connection and understanding and communication because at the end of the day, the foundation of a relationship shouldn’t necessarily be on the appearance of your partner.

It’s about the connection and the bond.

That is shared between the two.

Yes.

And a lot of men nowadays in the real world are not really.

Emotionally in tune with their partner.

And they’re not really willing to like foster that kind of connection and to let it grow.

Yep.

They’re very much like, they’re very much engaged.

Like, oh, she’s hot.

Yeah.

Like, do you want to go back to my bedroom?

Literally.

And, and that’s actually, you bring up a good point because there’s this discourse with men because men have to acknowledge that, again, TikTok.

This is TikTok here.

Men date for the appeal that the woman has to other men.

So, in the terms of hotness, the way she looks.

And women date because they want to date this person.

Wow.

Like, I can definitely see that point.

I don’t, like, I can see that point.

But it doesn’t, it’s obviously not in every, everybody in case here.

But that’s why fictional men also appeal.

Because they don’t give a fuck.

Yeah, their main female is beautiful, loved, and attractive to them.

But that’s not what they’re there for.

They’re not there to have her appeal to other men.

And that’s why they like her.

No.

Yeah.

And they very much fall in love with the woman because she’s confident, ambitious, and strong.

Which are not qualities praised in today’s patriarchal society.

Like, they love the women because of who they are.

They don’t pick and choose which parts of the woman they fall in love with.

They love her for everything that she is.

And, hey, real men, if you’re listening to this, do better.

Please.

You, you’ll find, like, if you dive into romanticity books and you actually look at it for what it is, you’ll start to understand what women ask for.

And we don’t ask for a lot.

Believe it or not, like, it’s funny because, again, this goes back into, like, the idea of men jumping into the genre and seeing it for quote-unquote smut and everything.

It’s that, well, we’re asking for is not a lot.

We just want somebody who will emotionally care for us.

We want the risk.

The baseline.

That’s the bars in the hell.

We want the baseline respect that men get on a daily basis.

Literally.

Like, we just want to be on equal footing with our partner.

And that’s, again, the big appeal for romanticity as a genre is that they’re both on equal footing, no matter how, no matter how powerful the male is.

The female is just as powerful.

Yes.

And she’s quick-witted.

She’s this.

She’s that.

She’s awesome in different ways.

And that’s why I love this fandom specifically and books in general.

Like, it shows women being treated as they should be.

Yep.

And I think the most toxic part of the fandom is that women are shamed for reading this and then having standards.

Right?

Yes.

And that’s the thing.

Like, we can’t enjoy anything.

Literally.

We can’t enjoy anything.

I find the biggest thing that we get criticized for is our music taste.

What we find enjoyment in.

Like, me with K-pop, they’re just like, you just like them for their looks.

No, I like them for the music, bro.

I like the music.

And I like their personality.

They’re freaking.

Don’t get me wrong.

They’re fine as heck.

Like, have you heard Ateez sing and rap?

Right?

Yes.

Have you seen Mingi has cutie patootie as he is?

His nickname is literally princess.

I can see that.

I’m like, he loves being called princess.

Like, yes, he’s an attractive man, but I love his personality.

I love how silly he is.

I love how derpy he is outside of that.

Yes.

Like, be so for real.

And I hate, I hate, I hate, I hate, I hate the bad rep that women get for a love for something.

When men can love Pokemon, when men can love Game of Thrones.

Like, men can love literally anything.

Men can love anything and not be, like, torn down for it.

Whereas a woman, if she loves anything, it’s like, oh, you can’t like that.

Yeah.

Or why do you like that?

Or it’s like a sneer.

Like, oh, you like that?

Like, don’t you think you’re too old for that?

And things like that.

I am just like, whenever that happens, I just think, you are so lucky we’re not in a fantasy book setting right now.

I’d knock you upside the head with something, but I’d go into jail for that.

Or I’d use magic.

Literally.

I’d be like, okay, go away.

Peace.

Like, the door is right there.

The door is right there.

Literally, the door is right there.

Do better, people.

Please do better.

Please do better.

But that’s the point of this podcast, is to introduce people to different things.

If you, if there are men listening out there, pick up that book.

Pick up the romance-y book.

You will find yourself enjoying something.

Like, it’s not just about the smut.

And if you’re seeing it as just about the smut, I’m sorry you’re not reading the same book as I am.

Yes.

You’re not looking at it at the same lens as we are, and that is some deep introspection you need to do.

Yes.

Okay.

Now, what do you think is next for this genre?

Oh, boy.

There has been really exciting news with fantasy and romanticy in general.

Brandon Sanderson is always coming out with new stuff.

Sarah J.

Maas just announced the next two books in her A Court of Thorns and Roses series, which I am so excited for.

My boyfriend is not prepared for the amount of rereading and binging of the books that’s going to happen.

Literally, that’s how I am with my boyfriend whenever I tell him about specific things.

I’m like, you are not ready for me to not shut up about this.

Yeah, and Fourth Wing is getting a TV show, and Michael B. Jordan from Sinners is involved, which I have high, high hopes with the synergy and everything that happened with Sinners.

That is a fantastic movie.

I’m not going to go into the historical context because that’s not what this is about, but that movie is so deep.

I’m like, even if he’s not starring in it, if he can bring the same level of quality and depth to the Fourth Wing show that was in Sinners when he worked together with, I’m forgetting the guy’s first name, but his last name is Kugler.

Ryan Kugler?

Yeah.

Yeah, Ryan Kugler.

If they can bring that to Fourth Wing, it’s going to be amazing.

Yeah.

I really do, I haven’t looked into it myself, but is the production female?

Like, the female side?

I only say that because that is the one thing that can taint something.

I know, I do want it to be heavily involved.

I think that there’s a lot of female involvement.

I know that Rebecca Yaros, the author, is super excited.

And if she’s super excited, that’s a clue that she’s going to be very involved.

Like, this is her baby.

Yes, I’m excited for it.

I’m excited to hear more about it.

All right, what do you feel is gaining traction within trope-type writing within this genre?

Like, for example, Enemies to Lovers, that’s a really popular one.

Enemies to Lovers is really popular.

I would say that Enemies to Lovers is more popular than Friends to Lovers.

I prefer them Friends to Lovers.

I’m very much a person who’s just like, I’d rather be friends with a person first.

Like, it’s very strange because Enemies to Lovers is one of my favorite tropes to read, and that’s very much not been my romantic life.

And my boyfriend and I agree.

We like Enemies to Lovers, but in real life, that trope is too much work.

Mm-hmm, it’s really too much work, like, oof, girl.

Yeah, I very much like the, um…

I can barely stand men in general.

So I’m like, once I deem that I don’t like you, it’s very hard for me to get past that.

Like, I can work with somebody, don’t get me wrong, that’s a whole different topic, but if I don’t like you in just general, because there are men I don’t like, and I just ignore their presence.

So that type of trope for me never appeals because I would never be able to do that, but I respect it.

I respect the grind, I respect it as a genre.

I do.

For you, babe, but not for me, but for you.

Yeah.

I love that for you, darling.

Um, I love Enemies to Lovers.

I love the whole trope of he falls first.

Oh, yes, or that he falls harder.

Yes, because it’s very much like, I love seeing it, because that’s where the emotional depth really shines, because from there, he really actually has a desire to build an emotional connection.

It’s also, for me, the mutual obsession.

Yes, mutual obsession, he falls first.

Also, I don’t necessarily know if it’s a trope as it is more of a personality type, but in books, I very much like morally gray men.

Oh, okay, same.

Okay, so this is going to get judgment from a lot of people, but I love me a good mafia man.

Yes, be that for what they may, but again, a big thing for me is mutual obsession.

I get it.

I mainly see, like, mafia men in, like, dark romance, which is not a genre that I read widely, but I have friends where, like, a lot of what they read, if they’re not reading fantasy, they’re reading dark romance.

And that’s a favorite.

I think the closest…

Enjoy what you love, ladies.

Enjoy what you love.

Enjoy it.

The closest I get to reading dark romance is dark romanticy, which…

I love.

I love dark romanticy, though.

Yeah, The Ever King, my favorite.

Fey pirates.

Yeah, a morally gray lead is so compelling.

Yeah, and I think a lot of the people are like, but, like, he’s very rough.

He does a lot of things.

There’s even this discussion of, like, morally gray fictional men, or fictional men in general, wanting to, you know, if someone hurts the female lead, he wants to, like…

Take them out.

Take them out, burn the world.

Burn the world for her.

And a lot of people are like, really?

And I’m like, well…

Yeah, that’s appealing, bro.

It is appealing because in real life, whenever something bad happens to us, like, we’re not listened to.

But the fictional men listen and they are willing to take action.

And they care.

They care.

And that’s the big thing.

They care about us.

Yes.

And that’s what appeals.

So I agree with you on the morally gray men because I’m like, give me a morally gray man because it’s wrong.

What’s it called?

Which is so funny because I’m the complete opposite.

I love me a morally gray man.

I’m very much just, like, with villain characters.

I’m like, all right, we’ll see here and there.

Yeah.

But I have friends who love, love down a villain character.

Oh, I love the villain because in the books, the villain is not actually technically a true villain.

They’re just…

They just do some things that we’re like, you know…

And also, like, the whole idea of the villain, that’s the idea that society has pushed on them.

And they are very much what society has made them to be because society sees traits…

I’m the monster that they’ve made me.

Yes.

Like, I am very much what you made me.

And the men have these character traits that aren’t necessarily…

They’re not necessarily bad, but society doesn’t like those traits.

And I think the reason those men love the female main character so much is because, and they love every part of the woman, is because the woman has the same qualities that they do and she’s in a very similar situation.

They see themselves in her.

Yes.

That makes complete sense.

Do you think our generation is changing the way the genre is developing?

I think so, because if you look back at fantasy very much back in the day, if there was smutty content included, especially, like…

With romance in particular, it’s an inherently feminist genre of literature because…

It’s written mainly by women.

And it centers women.

Yeah.

And when there was a shift to women writing romance and centering women in what we wanted, it very much shifted the way that the story is written away from the male gaze.

And it prioritized a female’s wants, needs, and desires over the man’s.

And the man in those books is very much like, okay, I can understand that if I can feed into those needs and desires, the relationship is just going to be better for both of us.

Because at the end of the day, if you’re happy, that makes me happier.

Right.

And I think it’s very much shifting because I think the genre is very much influencing society and saying it’s okay for women to have standards and to say no and that consent is important.

And I feel like it’s very empowering for women at a time when patriarchy is very much trying to stamp us down.

Indeed.

And it’s very telling of the times, especially because we’re of the generation that it’s just like, yeah, we’re not dealing with that anymore.

I don’t know what excuses you’ve got, but stop giving us excuses.

We’re changing it.

And that’s what I love about the genre and how the way it’s developing.

I love that it’s getting way more traction.

And on that idea, what are the possible drawbacks do you see happening because of this genre gaining more traction?

Um, honestly, I think a lot of the drawbacks I see does tie back to patriarchy and especially with the administration we have right now.

What kind of political statements am I allowed to make on here?

Well, we’ll try to keep them as limited as we can, darling.

Okay.

We had a lot to say and that would probably take us over our hour limit.

Yeah.

Let’s just say I am not a fan of Donald Trump or any of the policies he’s enforcing or what he’s using any of the agencies under his control to do.

I very much oppose that.

The book ban is a big thing that a lot of people are talking about.

And I feel like romance would be one of the first ones to go.

Yeah, because it very much centers women and how powerful we can be.

And they don’t want us to feel powerful because they don’t want us fighting back.

They don’t want us to have autonomy.

And that’s the thing that appeals most to the romance genre is that we retain autonomy in every part of ourselves.

And they very much don’t want us to see that because they just want to use us.

And that’s why I love this fandom so dang much.

It’s because we are powerful and I see detractors being like, the more popular it gets, the more our patriarchal society is going to fight it.

We’re very much already kind of facing, like, you know.

We’re facing it on the daily at this point.

Women as a whole face a lot of this stuff on the daily.

So it’s just a matter of we’re not going to take what you want as our word.

We don’t care.

We’re going to continue writing.

We’re going to continue reading.

And we’re going to continue supporting things that show that they care about us.

Yeah.

That centers women.

We’re so sick and tired of it being the men show.

Women deserve the chance to shine too.

Yes, and I think patriarchal society is very much a reflection of why things need to change because so many harmful policies are being introduced.

Like, especially with the SAVE Act and the things surrounding women being able to vote.

And if women, especially married women, if they still want to be able to vote, they have to pay hundreds of dollars just to be able to get the identification to prove, like, hey, this is who I am.

Like, we should not have our power and our voice stripped from us because of that.

And in the romance genre, it literally isn’t.

It isn’t.

We don’t have to deal with these things.

We don’t have to deal with the very scary issues.

And a lot of people find solace in the genre for that reason.

Yes.

And I think within the world of fiction, readers from all over the world are drawn in for that reason.

Oh, yeah.

So I completely agree with you.

And to segue here, from the expansive worlds to strong female leads and all the way down to hot fictional men, romance has a lot to offer.

It does.

I hope this episode has convinced you, all at home, to pick up a romance book.

Please do.

I’m begging you.

It’s wondrous worlds.

As Anne-Marie and I have talked about, this genre is very wide.

It’s become a solace for a lot of us who are dealing with a lot of things we deal with today in this day and age.

And I hope that to everybody out there, you pick up something that you can enjoy, whether you’re female, whether you’re male, and dive into this wondrous world that fantasy romance has to offer.

Yeah.

And with that, I want to say thank you for joining me today.

Thank you for having me.

This was so much fun.

I loved, I loved our conversation.

I know that we can go on forever about it.

And that’s just who we are.

I could talk about this all day.

Same.

Literally.

Like, it’s the Captain America.

I can go all day.

I don’t know about you.

I can go all day.

But on that note, till next time, my fandom friends, this has been your host, iDallas.

Thank you again, Anne-Marie.

You’re welcome.

Thank you so much for having me.

And cut.

That’s a wrap.

That’s a wrap.

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